MGTOW 2 – The Party Line: Replying to Tim’s comment

September 19, 2015

Two posts in less than 2 days — something I haven’t done in about 5 or 6 years!  Thank you so much, Tim who commented on my last post and inspired me to come back to what could be an enlightening discussion.  Or just me looking foolish.

You can read Tim’s unabridged, complete and comprehensive treatment of MGTOW in the comment, but I’m going to put it below with my own responses here.  Others who have an interest can feel free to chime in the comments.  This is why I began blogging in the first place was because I wanted to have conversations about topics like this without being censored.  I’ll admit to being relatively new to MGTOW (or the singular version- MGHOW) but so are a lot of folks reading this.  Let’s get on with it:

Tim says:

Many people deride MGTOW because, in a gynocentric society, women are given priority in all things. Because of our heavily gynocentric system, women walking away from their traditional roles is equated with empowerment – while men walking away from their traditional roles is equated with misogyny, insecurity, immaturity and fear of women. See how that works? Shame men for being strong and independent – but praise women for the same. Likewise, women speaking of their freedom from the slavery of marriage is considered empowerment – while men freeing themselves from women’s destructive power is considered misogyny, insecurity, immaturity and fear of women. Again – men releasing themselves from women’s destructive power is derided – while women doing the same is hailed as liberation.

I think this is one of the best, most cohesive descriptions of why MGTOW (and other groups like it) exist.

Much of media and religion is setup to brainwash men into gynocentric robots that can’t be happy unless they’ve been validated by women. MGTOW is a direct threat to this power over men; hence MGTOW will be frowned upon by most women and a sizable portion of men. MGTOW isn’t a movement. We don’t have leaders to be attacked. MGTOW is a mindset.

I’m going to have some things to say later on in a future post about the role of religion in this, because modern day churches have set themselves up into gynocentric institutions, despite protestations that it’s supposedly a patriarchy.  There could be some debate about whether this is because women took it over or men simply abdicated but it’s safe to say that most houses of worship are hostile places for men.  I also alluded to the establishment of monasteries as perhaps the earliest roots of men going a different way from what society might otherwise want for men as self-sustaining communities that were able to exist and thrive apart from women.

The MGTOW mindset reverses the gynocentric brainwashing of men and introduces men to a lifestyle not dependent on female validation, freeing men from the all too frequent life destruction that accompanies giving women power over their lives – particularly through the most gynocentric of institutions – marriage.

90% of men’s life problems evaporate if they do but one thing – never give a woman psychical, psychological, emotional, legal, financial or spiritual power over your life. Nevertheless – media and religion push men to do just that – put their balls on the chopping block for women to destroy. Funny how that works. What would life be like for men if most didn’t give women this life destroying power over themselves?

Can you be married and be a MGHOW simultaneously? Can you be a smoker and a non-smoker simultaneously?

Hehe…well if there is a way to be a smoker and non-smoker simultaneously, I’m doing exactly that.  I’ve been vaping for a couple of years.  No fire, no smoke.  So maybe the analogy works better than I would have first thought.  Sure, I’m still getting nominal amounts of nicotine and possibly a few other foreign substances (I mix my own juice so I know exactly what is going into my tank) but it is not nearly as destructive as what I was doing before.  I LIKED smoking, even though it was bad for me.  But there was such an enormous overhead with the analog cigs that I was no longer willing to pay.  Burning the house down– that helped too.  But the bottom line is that I’m still engaged in part of the addiction but at the same time not as much and am in a better position to control my own habit.  I decide hoow much nicotine I get and have been decreasing it gradually to the point where it’s less than a third of where I started.  I’m working on it.

So I suppose as someone who is looking at being a MGHOW, I’m a recovering blue pill addict and doing it in the same purposeful, deliberate manner.  Weaning myself out where the emotional devastation that usually accompanies a man who gets blind-sided with divorce will be minimized.  The financial fall-out might take a bit more preparation but it’s the same.   The ‘nicotine’ of most married guys (or those seeking relationships with women) is sex.  That is the hook that women can use to catch and reel most guys in, and then they keep him strung out like a junkie, giving just enough to keep him hooked but not enough to keep him satiated.  In this way, I’m already ahead of most MGTOW fellows because I have been without for 5 years.  I quit begging for my fix and have learned to live without.  The overhead of sex just isn’t worth it.

MGTOW aren’t here to shame men that got married – we’re here to enlighten men on the increasingly destructive nature of relationships with women. Many MGTOW are divorced men or men that have otherwise been badly burned.  In the past 50 years, in the US alone, tens upon tens of millions of men’s lives have been destroyed by women through divorce. Every year, in the US alone, tens upon tens of thousands of men commit suicide. A man’s suicide rate skyrockets as a result of divorce – while women’s suicide rate following divorce remains static. 95+% of alimony and child support go from men to women – yet women are strong and independent. This massive, forced transfer of wealth (legalized theft and destruction of the patriarchy) has been going on for decades.

It’s right here where the voice of the presently married guys need to be heard.  MGTOW is dominated by 2 groups; the guys who have never been married and woken up before they got hitched and those who got burned.  In both cases, it’s people who have been disengaged by choice or by circumstance.  Those of us still in the kettle have a seat at this table because while the case is masterfully made about how divorce destroys the lives of men, there is also the effects it has on children.  And about half of these children are going to grow up to be men.  There is something to be said for trying to reverse some of the brainwashing and trying to raise boys who are more independent thinkers.  Guys capable of going their own way.  The guys who have no children can’t do that.  The divorced guys can, although part of the tyranny of family law is that often the role a father plays in the child’s life is marginalized after divorce, and the mother is then able to complete the indoctrination process unhindered.  Think about it: they spend an entire day in public schools where 95% of the teachers are women.  They go to church where women run the show and then go home to mom.  There’s no counter-balance except for those of us who are still in the mix.

Watch the debate on the Safe Campus Act. It will be extremely telling if it fails. If it does fail, with nothing similar to replace it, women will have won carte blanche to have men expelled from college after they have regret-sex or get dumped by their college boyfriends. Soon after that, women will push to have the same removal of men’s rights to presumption of innocence and due process enshrined in the criminal justice system – just as they’ve done with the VAWA. [Links add by me – DJ]

In the case of the Safe Campus Act, women won’t gain anything by the defeat of the bill that they don’t already have.  But both pieces of legislation cited above do point out the hazardous nature of being a man in our country today.  But they came about because of the hazardous nature of being a woman.   One of the unique things about MGTOW, compared to those who have advocated turning the clock back as traditionalists, is that it is moving forward in an assertive and non-violent way.  One would think that feminists who oppose violence against women and the objectification of women would jump on board and get behind this.  MGTOW is an anti-female objectification mindset.  It could be nicknamed the “Stop-thinking-with-your-dick” mindset.  It’s guys thinking with the wrong head that mostly gets them in trouble in the first place when it comes to women and often the violence comes when they aren’t getting what they want from the person they want.

Thanks for commenting and contributing, Tim!

 


MGTOW – Where was I when this party started?

September 19, 2015

Howdy ho!  To whomever is still around…

I knew I would be back here at some point because I keep seeing articles and news stories that catch my eye and I think “Gosh, these would make some good blogging topics!”  But the rest of my life would get in the way or I would get busy binge-watching old episodes of Survivor.  For the past few days I’ve been watching videos and visiting sites relating to this idea of MGTOW.  Men Going Their Own Way.  It’s a very interesting movement and the most serious adherents would probably claim that I have no legitimate business being part of it.  But I beg to differ.

First off, following the above link might not provide a very succinct description of what the movement is about.  Basically, it is men withdrawing from the dating game in a realization that society has stacked the deck against them in the social, economic and political arenas when it comes to relationships and marriage thanks largely to a feminist agenda.  I’m sure I have had a feminist reader or two (but prolly not much after today) but the MGTOW movement, while recognizing that men are victims of a rigged system, do not necessarily hate women.  They simply distrust them.  And instead of having an agenda that seeks to turn the clock back (like many traditionalists would do) they simply come to the realization that the entire game is simply not worth it.  And so they go their own way.  Which is to say, they aren’t interested in marriage or relationships with women.

It’s not really a new thing at all, now that it comes to me.  Monasteries and Convents have espoused a similar view for centuries, except instead of individuals going their own way, they decided to go God’s way.  I visited a local monastery a couple of times during the past year and bought a book on the subject and have to admit that there was some appeal to the concept of withdrawing from the fight altogether.  heaven knows my life over the past few years has become more and more monastic in the way it looks.  Other than the occasional porn.   But even right down to spending more time outside, with my newest hobby: beekeeping.  A body can learn a lot about about females when you are spending time with about 60,000 of them.

MGTOW is a movement that would seem tailor-made for a person like me except for one thing: I’m married.  The fundamental tenet of the movement (and the monastic movement) is that you eschew marriage and relationships in order to devote yourself too other things.  The secular version seems to be about devoting oneself to oneself.  But regardless, the focus is on investing oneself into other things besides the modern practice of constantly chasing and seeking after female approval and validation.

Before I go a lot further, I’m well aware that women suffer from similar conditions: seeking after male validation and approval.  However I don’t believe it is as acute as it is for men and I’ll explain why that is presently.

When I look at my present circumstances, and any sort of quest for freedom, happiness or contentment, I find myself staring down a very deep abyss that has kept me from making any sort of move since starting this blog.  Basically, the one suggestion that I have never taken but has been suggested over and over and over again is the route of divorce.   Family law takes a dim view of a guy walking away just for the hell of it.  While sexual inertness could be a just cause in some eyes, the law doesn’t see it on the same terms as infidelity.  Walking away would be a case of economic and familial Armageddon.  It would be mean putting the kids through a lot of turmoil, it would mean a terrible drop in our standard of living, which already rests right on the poverty line.  This does not mean I could never exercise that option, but what we have going now is probably the best option.  Basically, I have my space and she has hers.  And we share the kids while I pay for pretty much all the necessities and she pays for what she wants.

I’m sure I have mentioned it before, but Arwyn is not very good at managing resources of any sort.  So my presence does at least provide some financial stability for the boys as they grow up and hopefully get to a spot where they might be able to fend for themselves.  There’s mitigating circumstances on that as well, relating to disabilities but I’m thinking I’ll end up taking that on eventually on my own.  At least I’m prepared to do that if/when necessary.

One thing about the MGTOW movement is that there has not really been much of a conversation about guys like me: guys who discovered the “Red Pill” only after already being married.  Most f the movement’s energy is directed toward preventing guys from making the mistakes we’ve already made.  Which is all fine and good, but I think there is a place for us married guys at the table.  Afterall, we have inside knowledge of what the danger signs are and what awaits the unwary and hapless fellow who happens to get involved to the point where he’s looking at all of the liabilities and none of the benefits of marriage.

I’m certain Arwyn has weighed the pros and cons of divorce in her own mind.  If I were making more money to be able to afford lots of child support and alimony, she would have either kicked me out or moved out a long time ago as she isn’t much happier than I am with where we are in the marriage.  We haven’t acknowledged our wedding anniversary for about 5 years and it’s been about that long since I made any effort towards valentines day.  I do help the boys pick out stuff for her for Christmas and her birthday.  In a lot of ways, we have sort of gone our own way.   But there is still expectations that I pay for everything, take care of the house and the food while not having a lot of say in what happens within the house.  I can;t leave my little office without her rushing at me to fix or solve some problem that she has with her stuff or with the boys.  I’m expected to continue to be her utility while she gets to be…I suppose a baby sitter?

The kicker is that I haven’t really seen any indication that this condition would be substantially improved living with a different woman.  In fact it could be a lot worse if I was living with someone who screamed and yelled all the time.  Sure, there hasn’t been any sex in over 5 years but it’s not like the sex was that great before that.  Basically I’ve arrived at the dominant conclusion within the MGTOW movement: The pussy just isn’t worth it.

To be fair, I have absolutely no doubt that there are women who have arrived at a similar conclusion when it comes to men, except that a premium has never really been placed on male sexuality as much as his ability to provide.  However the women who gravitated here were ones who had the misfortune of seeing their own sexual values minimized, which given all of the sexual stereotypes amounted to a sort of wild blind-side.   I’ve seen pics of a few and these were not ugly women either.  They simply ended up with guys who checked out of the typical sexual game far earlier than expected.  I’m not dismissing these ladies at all, but I can only relate best to my own experience.

If I decide to, I might expound more on the topic as I think more on it.  It’s what has been resonating with me lately, although I’m not as much onto disliking women as much as many of the folks in the MGTOW universe.  Women are people and aren’t inherently better or worse than men, although in the modern climate I’m not sure that women and men are necessarily good for each other.  Arwyn is not necessarily a bad person, but I don’t think she has ever really and truly valued me in the same way I valued her.  At some point I became a utility and a non-person except when she had some need.  I might have been going about things in a similar fashion in going after her to meet my sexual needs, but I was at least willing to look for some common ground and willing to try to negotiate.  Now that the sexual shop is closed, I find I’m still doling out the utility but get zero in return.  I find over time I’m less willing to simply go along with her crap just because.

 

 


Is Arwyn Autistic?

June 24, 2013

No one actually asked this, but I have for quite some time, now.

Hell, I even wrote about it back in 2005!   But now I have a much broader history and supply of knowledge from which to draw, apart from the sexual side.  Back in those days that was my primary focus so I missed a lot of other things.  but those who have been reading the longest might recognize those I missed before.

And some of the knowledge comes from having a child who is diagnosed and is definitely on the spectrum.  He and Arwyn demonstrate a LOt of the same characteristics that only differ in degree but not in kind.

Autism is a sort of global label that describes several things going on.  One thing does not make one autistic, but it is a constellation of different things that allow one to claim a space on the spectrum.  And even those of us who are on it do not usually occupy the same space at the same time.  I’m going to depart from some of the mundane DSM characteristics and focus more on what makes the disorder a disorder.  There are things about autism that make life hard for both the one who has it and the one who has to live with them.

Management of space: I had written repeatedly about the mess our house was frequently in at least prior to the fire.  In my mind, Aryn was being a lazy slob.  However, over time and from observing my oldest, she really can not help a lot of it.  She simply has no concept of limited space.  For instance, my oldest will always and consistently overfill a glass of water…or his bowl of cereal…or whatever container.  It results in a big mess when it spills everywhere.   We ride the boy constantly about it, and at the age of 14 he should be able to fill a glass without spilling.  But he can’t.  Ever.  Arwyn is not as messy and has learned not to overfill her containers.  She simply buys more containers to hold her excess stuff.  But soon there is clutter everywhere and I have no doubt our new and mostly empty house will eventually become a cluttered trash heap.

Management of resources.  My oldest lovest playing video games and I encourage real time strategy games that require the judicious buld up and spending of resources like Farm Frenzy.  And he consistently over spends or fails to manage the resource ( or space in the game) in order to advance.  His younger, brother, by contrast, readily figures these things out quickly and easily to advance far beyond his lder bother on such games.  Arwyn by contrast has always been challenged by managing resources.  I have had to bail her out more than once when she gets in credit card debt.  And she has no inerest in real time strategy games cause she would be bad at them.

Time management.  Similar to the baove two examples.  Always late, always just a little too slow.  time gets away when focusing on some small detail that might seem to most as irrelevant.

All of the above are kinda mathematical in nature with some implicit quantity involved.  I’m pretty lousy at math myself but have some innate ability to manage things better.

When we get into social characteristics, Arwyn and I are a lot more similar.  She is slightly more social than I am, at least in face-to-face type things.  I tend toward the social media like blogging (but not so much Facebook) but we both might be described as a bit reclusive at times.

In my article on sensory thresholds, I focused on the sexual side, but Arwyn demonstrate more global characteristics.  She likes things a certain way, and woe to anything exceeds that narrow comfort level.  A certain temperature, certain clothes and certain foods.  Small wonder that sex would be such a minefield with its sensory richness across all senses.  Bad lighting would knock her out of the mood, let alone something like a fart.

One question that WOULD likely come up is “What difference would it make if you knew Arwyn was autistic?”  It’s why I don’t shy away from claiming my own space on the spectum.  Basically it helps explain some things instead of misinterpreting motives.   Just because Arwyn can not do certain things does not mean she is stupid or lazy. It means she can not, despite her best efforts.  That’s not to say she always gives her best.  I don’t believe she does much of the time, but I at least have a frame of reference to determine of she is genuinely able and not willing or unable and unwilling.   There is a big difference as to how I deal between those two.  Her inabilities mean these things just have to be managed.  She is responsible for the things she is able to do, not for things she can’t.

Having that frame of reference makes forgiveness a lot easier, at least for me.  It’s not an excuse, it simply is what it is.  There are enough other things to be mad and bitter about without adding things neither of us have control over.  Thing is, she is in her own particular state of denial.  I have to often intervene between her and my oldest because even though she possesses many of the same kind of traits, her tolerance for them is much lower.  I am more of a mind that I relate to my boys in being more like than and I acknowledge those similarities and am able to deal a bit lighter and compassonately toward the autistic stuff versus just willful disobedience.  I can relate to them.   And by the same tokan can kind of relate to Awyn, but on a different level.  It does not always make it better but in the long run it is slightly easier.

 

 


Amiable but…

June 24, 2013

Less than fulfilling.  At least that is how this article from CNN put it.

The comments on this article are closed as apparently so many commenters reacted with hostility toward the ideas presented there.  Which isn’t TOO surprising considering the sort of feedback I’ve gotten over the years by people stumbling on to my page.  Those few souls who are regulars ( and you know who you are) already know the stuff I’ve tried over the years.  My blog has survived the test of time.  But like my marriage, it has seen its better days.

Of course *I* liked the article because it is a good and accurate description of my reality.  We’re in this trying to do right by our kids.  The research is very definitive on the fact that kids do better when living with both parents.  And mine are no exception.  They do not live in a house of exceptional violence or really even conflict.  We are basically amiable but not fulfilled.  It’s not the happiest of circumstances but it is what is and we’re trying to make the best of it.  We haven’t had a couples counseling session since the last blog update but not sure what the counselor could do for us except perhaps negotiate forward somehow.  The road ahead won’t be easy but it isn’t easy for anyone.  Suffering and hardship are just part of life and no one escapes. In the grand scheme of things, I’m not going to complain …much.

We are now in our new house.  As devastating as the fire was, it really was the only real way we were ever going to be able to do some of the things needing to get done.  There was no other way we were ever going to get a new house with new appliances.  Or a new car for Arwyn whose 16 year-old car died 2 weeks after the fire.  Through insurance, we rebuilt and provided quite a few jobs for people. We also enabled quite a few people to get rid of their own gently used stuff and feel pretty good about it.  I quit soking, moving on to vaping which is at least safer and healthier for those around me, if not myself.

Like one suggestion in that article, is my having my own room, which doubles as my office.  I do enjoy having my own space and my own bed.  I actually got a loft bed, and now my youngest wants one too.  It’s his perch of choice when he comes into my room.  There is a little concern that as I get older it might get harder and harder to climb the ladder into the thing or that I might fall down while getting out.  I just have to be careful about it and make sure I have the coordination slightly greater than a drunken college student while getting in and out. But got shelves, a little light and a small fan up there making it a nice cozy little space.  I got a bucket hung to slip in my laptop and another one at the foot to use as a sort of chamber pot so I don’t have to bother climbing down during the night.  Underneath I got closet rails to hang my clothes up.  A little pricey but well worth it, I think to create more space.

My main laptop just died so am currently looking at new ones, using my work one to write this post.  The CNN article was just too good to pass on or save as it has so much relevance to the theme of this blog.    At least this part:

If it’s possible, consider separate bedrooms. You’d be surprised how the creation of privacy and nonmarital spaces in a marriage might help. Already one in four Americans sleep in separate bedrooms or beds from their spouses. The National Association of Homebuilders predicts that by 2015, 60% of new homes will be designed with “dual master bedrooms.”

I’m not going to say Arwyn and I will never divorce, but right now this situation seems to be the most amiable one for us and our kids.


Taking A Step

May 11, 2013

“It’s a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door,” he used to say. “You step into the Road, and if you don’t keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to.
J.R.R. Tolkien

 

All journeys begin with a first step of one sort or another.  And tonight, we took one, Arwyn and I.  At least this is how the therapist put it; taking a significant step.

We had not met with our therapist for several weeks, not since the session right before the movie.  You DO remember “Date Night” right?

I had honestly been thinking about our little homework assignment since that time, but we have both been so busy, it would have been such a contrived thing.  But I went back and forth on it.  Arwyn is who she is, which means she is not really a sexual creature, at least with me.  I honestly could not see how I could do anything meaningful to change anything.  The 3 weeks passed and in that amount of time, Arwyn and I did have a few battles about money as we are in full-blown house reconstruction mode.  And there are ooodles and oodles of decisions to be made and all of them involve money.  My opinion of Arwyn’s handling of money is not very high at all.  In my mind, giving her a large pile of cash is like giving a teenager a bottle of whiskey and the keys to the car.

These money squabbles were discussed some and it was amazing how she claimed to have discussions that we didn’t have.  Arwyn has demonstrated before that she is willing to engage in deception, if not outright lying, but sometimes my brain CAN get addled.  But not about money.

We moved from the money and got into a discussion about our sleeping arrangements in the new house.  Here in our temp house, I have been in my room/office and she has been upstairs in the master bedroom.  This is similar to what it was before the fire.  So for quite some time, we have kept our own spaces.  Even before that, you might recall that she slept in the inverted sleeping position for years and years.  Here’s an old post from the old blog in order give you a little idea as to what those days were like.  I look at a few of the comments from back then, and see the truth I could not see then.

I stated that I really could not see Arwyn and I sharing space, much less a bed together.

At this point, I think our therapist went back to parsing out what was happening.   This was not something that was just a year or two or three in the making.  She started asking when and how long this business of seperating and the lousy/sparse sex had been going on.  Let’s see…our youngest is 11…so a good long while.  So she asked Arwyn how long she has been sexually disengaged.  Arwyn went back to about 1999.  When the therapist asked her if she could envision sharing a bed or having a real sexual relationwhip with me again, Arwyn stated she could not.

So how did I feel about that?  This happened to be the therapists question and I had to think a bit.  Honestly, I felt slightly relieved.  It was a truth I had been feeling for a very long time.  It was actually some relief to have it right out there.  And that answered the question about sleeping arrangements.  We were each keen to have our own space and this new house would enable that as we had closed off an area to make an office about the size of the master bedroom.  That would be my space.

“You do realize this is the first step to you no longer being a couple, right?”  Our therapist was making sure we understood.

I pointed out this had been a matter of fact and truth for a very long time.  At least now we were being explicit about it.  It was now an honest move, and perhaps one of the first real and genuine ones Arwyn and I have made in years and one that we both agreed on.

Many of you saw it coming a long time ago.  Some did back in 2005, but I felt like I had to give it my best.  And I really think I did.  But Arwyn had already checked out years earlier.  Whatever I did was too little or too late and nothing I did could dent that wall.  This does not mean there is no caring between us.  Or even a love of a sort.  But we are definitely not in IN love.  Not as what I would construe as husband and wife.

Our therapist seemed to resign at this point.  Neither of us were fighting or contending for this marriage.  I suppose as long as one of us was willing to try there was always some hope.  But I’m spent and have not the energy for a campaign or long siege.

I readily admit that the first few years of our marriage I fucked up.  I was pretty horrid and useless and Arwyn suffered for it.  But I did spend time trying to atone for those early sins.  And I did suffering of my own, long and mightily.  At some point, the suffering ceases to be instructive and is simply pointless.  That doesn’t mean I won’t continue to suffer.  But at least it will be in my own space.  And maybe…perhaps…it will lessen slightly.  We can finally be honest without the pretense and the charade.  I just don’t have the energy or time for that.

Ain’t nobody got time for that!

 

 

 

 


Date Night

April 21, 2013

You can read my review of the movie itself on my other blog.

But this is a review of the date itself.  I’m suddenly having flashbacks of Chuck Woolery.

Basically the date was sort of set up by Arwyn with help from her church which was offering childcare for couple from 6-10 p.m. which is prime time for a date night.  And it was set up for this particular movie so as many as possible could go as wanted.  The church was a good distance from the theater so after dropping the kids off, we went straight there.  We had already gotten our tickets through Fandango as she had heard that some shows were selling out.  This would not be one of those sold out showings though.

I had bought some candy for us ahead of time, which I thought was a good move.  And got some caramel/chocolate candies which is a combination she generally likes.  We waited a bit in the lobby before finding and entering our theater.  Once seated, I went and bought us each drinks.

We had good seats where we could actually stretch or put our feet up.  The theater never completely filled up but there were a lot of people there.  Almost all of them from Arwyn’s church.  This made the entire movie experience different as a parade of people came up and introduced themselves or just walked up to say ‘hi’ or just to talk.  In other words, there was a lot more chatter and talking than one would typically experience at the movies as everyone seemed to know one another.  I was a bit put off by this, as it felt like being in church rather than a movie.  Except without the need for earplugs, which is a requirement for me in her church.

Keep in mind, there was some homework that was supposed to be done.  But Arwyn sat in such a way that her hands were neatly folded in her lap.  I would have to be bold indeed to go for a hand hold.  And I was simply not feeling that bold.  I diid at various times lean against her, hoping she might lean back, but she never did.  I had MY hands readily accessible on the arm rests, but she never made any advances.  So there was no hand holding or leg rubbing during this movie.   And I wish there would have been, because the movie felt a but overly long to me.  However I can’t help but also think that the religious nature of the movie as well as being surrounded by her fellow congregants  might have worked to suppress things.  In my mind, while I was not going to rebuff or work against Arwyn, neither was I going to throw myself in front of the proverbial bus.

After the movie, on the way out, Arwyn did finally grab my hand, which was nice.  But whereas I might have wanted to dawdle and linger a bit to en joy it, she was walking very briskly.  I made the mistake of asking what time it was, thinking that maby she was worried about being late for something.  But she had no idea and the hand hold was broke as she went to fish for her phone.  And that was the end of that.  There was no more hand holding or anything at all.  It was done.  We did talk a bit about the movie on the way to get the boys but that was kind of the extent of the conversation.

The date ended when we got to the church and she picked up the boys and we drove home.  I went to my room, and the boys went to theirs and she went to hers.  No kiss good night, no sparks.

This would be the part where we see who the audience picked and I decide if I want who they pick or stick with this one.  Hmm…I wonder who the audience WOULD pick?  I might be tempted to go with their choice, simply because I am a cheapskate and the idea of letting them pick up the tab would have some appeal.

Why couldn’t I ever have any connections like this one?


Counselling 2: Homework

April 20, 2013

As I think about our latest counselling session I feel some combination of anxiety and hopefulness.  But when I think about the latter for any length of time, I wonder: what exactly I am hoping for?

There is a part of me that SO wishes things would change and work themselves out.  But the pragmatic me looks at the very long history, much of it documented over the past 400+ posts, and I can just shake my head.  I must be dreaming!

I keep getting distracted by my own past posts.  SO much history and things I would have otherwise forgotten.

This therapist is definitely and has a way of moving things along and keeping them on point.  I like her a lot more than the last one.  It was a bit awkward this session because she had an intern with her who was listening in.  But one we got into it, we just kinda ignored the extra body in the corner.  I need to give her a name.  I’ll call her Wanda, just cause that popped into my head.

She always starts out asking how things are going and Arwyn always turns and looks at me.  Sometimes I wait and see what she has to say or sometimes I will say it is okay.  And things have been okay the past week.  Arwyn liked that we were able to sit and have nice conversations, mostly about the new house.  Lots of decisions about paint and flooring and siding and cabinetry and appliances.  I don’t have a lot of preferences on such things, and certainly nothing I would construe as STRONG feelings.  So we were generally able to be relaxed.

I did mention something about how sad I had felt about all the things I had tried before and how they had flopped and failed.  The therapist asked me to tell her some of the things I had tried before that were not specifically sex oriented.  I have no idea why, but had a feeling long before this therapy session.  I actually pulled out a hand written list (because my printer died in the fire) of this post.  I didn’t say all things on there, but the nonsexual stuff, like praying together, no media night, trying to hug for 2 minutes.  Wanda was very impressed that I happened to have this list on me, and pointed out that I HAD been thinking about our relationship.

Arwyn was a bit flabbergasted that I actually had a list, but still took it in stride.  Of course when Wanda asked her what SHE had tried, she really had nothing to offer up except the latest thing which is the movie we are going to see tonight.  Arwyn expressed that she was pleasantly surprised by the fact that I accepted her invitation without any real concern or hesitation.  And this also animated Wanda a great deal, with her even comparing it to to Arwyn answering the door in nothing but a coat and a smile.  I laughed as it really was not like that at all for me.  Yes, Arwyn was making an overture, but this was a movie she was going to go see with or without me simply because someone in her church was in it.  And I also stated what I did in my last post, was that there might be elements of manipulation in it, but I’m not going to do what she did to me for so long.  I’m not going to put her down when she is making an effort, even if it comes with strings.  I can deal with the strings.  I also stated that I was also not going to take over the initiating.

This date is going to be awkward enough but Wanda made it even more so by some of her suggestions and her homework assignment.  There was some talk about what Arwyn might do if I reached out and held her hand.  Wanda suggested she might respond by stroking my hand and then even moving her hand to my leg to the inside of my thigh.  Wanda looked at me and asked what I would think of that and I blinked.  “I would think the sea just parted or pigs were flying.”   We all had a good laugh.

Now that I think of it, it’s too bad Wanda isn’t available as she definitely has a a good imagination!

Wanda helped frame my own behaviorist orientation in terms that Arwyn could understand.  And basically our homework was this: initiate something and make a mental note of what the response is.

I kinda made a face at this.  I am really not keen to initiate anything!  And why should I?  To what end?  Arwyn mentioned that she would like us to be friends and possibly have the deep intimate relationship she has always wanted but her definition of intimacy looks more to me like something she would have with a girlfriend or family member.  It would involve gobs and gobs of talking.  And little else.

We got some busy days and weeks coming up, so it will be a couple of weeks before we meet with Wanda again.  But I’ll try to keep track here of what happens…if anything.

Funny how I feel kinda awkward and pressured.  Arwyn must be beside herself with anxiety.  That gives me an idea as to MY initiating a conversation on the way there, maybe.