MGTOW 2 – The Party Line: Replying to Tim’s comment

September 19, 2015

Two posts in less than 2 days — something I haven’t done in about 5 or 6 years!  Thank you so much, Tim who commented on my last post and inspired me to come back to what could be an enlightening discussion.  Or just me looking foolish.

You can read Tim’s unabridged, complete and comprehensive treatment of MGTOW in the comment, but I’m going to put it below with my own responses here.  Others who have an interest can feel free to chime in the comments.  This is why I began blogging in the first place was because I wanted to have conversations about topics like this without being censored.  I’ll admit to being relatively new to MGTOW (or the singular version- MGHOW) but so are a lot of folks reading this.  Let’s get on with it:

Tim says:

Many people deride MGTOW because, in a gynocentric society, women are given priority in all things. Because of our heavily gynocentric system, women walking away from their traditional roles is equated with empowerment – while men walking away from their traditional roles is equated with misogyny, insecurity, immaturity and fear of women. See how that works? Shame men for being strong and independent – but praise women for the same. Likewise, women speaking of their freedom from the slavery of marriage is considered empowerment – while men freeing themselves from women’s destructive power is considered misogyny, insecurity, immaturity and fear of women. Again – men releasing themselves from women’s destructive power is derided – while women doing the same is hailed as liberation.

I think this is one of the best, most cohesive descriptions of why MGTOW (and other groups like it) exist.

Much of media and religion is setup to brainwash men into gynocentric robots that can’t be happy unless they’ve been validated by women. MGTOW is a direct threat to this power over men; hence MGTOW will be frowned upon by most women and a sizable portion of men. MGTOW isn’t a movement. We don’t have leaders to be attacked. MGTOW is a mindset.

I’m going to have some things to say later on in a future post about the role of religion in this, because modern day churches have set themselves up into gynocentric institutions, despite protestations that it’s supposedly a patriarchy.  There could be some debate about whether this is because women took it over or men simply abdicated but it’s safe to say that most houses of worship are hostile places for men.  I also alluded to the establishment of monasteries as perhaps the earliest roots of men going a different way from what society might otherwise want for men as self-sustaining communities that were able to exist and thrive apart from women.

The MGTOW mindset reverses the gynocentric brainwashing of men and introduces men to a lifestyle not dependent on female validation, freeing men from the all too frequent life destruction that accompanies giving women power over their lives – particularly through the most gynocentric of institutions – marriage.

90% of men’s life problems evaporate if they do but one thing – never give a woman psychical, psychological, emotional, legal, financial or spiritual power over your life. Nevertheless – media and religion push men to do just that – put their balls on the chopping block for women to destroy. Funny how that works. What would life be like for men if most didn’t give women this life destroying power over themselves?

Can you be married and be a MGHOW simultaneously? Can you be a smoker and a non-smoker simultaneously?

Hehe…well if there is a way to be a smoker and non-smoker simultaneously, I’m doing exactly that.  I’ve been vaping for a couple of years.  No fire, no smoke.  So maybe the analogy works better than I would have first thought.  Sure, I’m still getting nominal amounts of nicotine and possibly a few other foreign substances (I mix my own juice so I know exactly what is going into my tank) but it is not nearly as destructive as what I was doing before.  I LIKED smoking, even though it was bad for me.  But there was such an enormous overhead with the analog cigs that I was no longer willing to pay.  Burning the house down– that helped too.  But the bottom line is that I’m still engaged in part of the addiction but at the same time not as much and am in a better position to control my own habit.  I decide hoow much nicotine I get and have been decreasing it gradually to the point where it’s less than a third of where I started.  I’m working on it.

So I suppose as someone who is looking at being a MGHOW, I’m a recovering blue pill addict and doing it in the same purposeful, deliberate manner.  Weaning myself out where the emotional devastation that usually accompanies a man who gets blind-sided with divorce will be minimized.  The financial fall-out might take a bit more preparation but it’s the same.   The ‘nicotine’ of most married guys (or those seeking relationships with women) is sex.  That is the hook that women can use to catch and reel most guys in, and then they keep him strung out like a junkie, giving just enough to keep him hooked but not enough to keep him satiated.  In this way, I’m already ahead of most MGTOW fellows because I have been without for 5 years.  I quit begging for my fix and have learned to live without.  The overhead of sex just isn’t worth it.

MGTOW aren’t here to shame men that got married – we’re here to enlighten men on the increasingly destructive nature of relationships with women. Many MGTOW are divorced men or men that have otherwise been badly burned.  In the past 50 years, in the US alone, tens upon tens of millions of men’s lives have been destroyed by women through divorce. Every year, in the US alone, tens upon tens of thousands of men commit suicide. A man’s suicide rate skyrockets as a result of divorce – while women’s suicide rate following divorce remains static. 95+% of alimony and child support go from men to women – yet women are strong and independent. This massive, forced transfer of wealth (legalized theft and destruction of the patriarchy) has been going on for decades.

It’s right here where the voice of the presently married guys need to be heard.  MGTOW is dominated by 2 groups; the guys who have never been married and woken up before they got hitched and those who got burned.  In both cases, it’s people who have been disengaged by choice or by circumstance.  Those of us still in the kettle have a seat at this table because while the case is masterfully made about how divorce destroys the lives of men, there is also the effects it has on children.  And about half of these children are going to grow up to be men.  There is something to be said for trying to reverse some of the brainwashing and trying to raise boys who are more independent thinkers.  Guys capable of going their own way.  The guys who have no children can’t do that.  The divorced guys can, although part of the tyranny of family law is that often the role a father plays in the child’s life is marginalized after divorce, and the mother is then able to complete the indoctrination process unhindered.  Think about it: they spend an entire day in public schools where 95% of the teachers are women.  They go to church where women run the show and then go home to mom.  There’s no counter-balance except for those of us who are still in the mix.

Watch the debate on the Safe Campus Act. It will be extremely telling if it fails. If it does fail, with nothing similar to replace it, women will have won carte blanche to have men expelled from college after they have regret-sex or get dumped by their college boyfriends. Soon after that, women will push to have the same removal of men’s rights to presumption of innocence and due process enshrined in the criminal justice system – just as they’ve done with the VAWA. [Links add by me – DJ]

In the case of the Safe Campus Act, women won’t gain anything by the defeat of the bill that they don’t already have.  But both pieces of legislation cited above do point out the hazardous nature of being a man in our country today.  But they came about because of the hazardous nature of being a woman.   One of the unique things about MGTOW, compared to those who have advocated turning the clock back as traditionalists, is that it is moving forward in an assertive and non-violent way.  One would think that feminists who oppose violence against women and the objectification of women would jump on board and get behind this.  MGTOW is an anti-female objectification mindset.  It could be nicknamed the “Stop-thinking-with-your-dick” mindset.  It’s guys thinking with the wrong head that mostly gets them in trouble in the first place when it comes to women and often the violence comes when they aren’t getting what they want from the person they want.

Thanks for commenting and contributing, Tim!

 

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MGTOW – Where was I when this party started?

September 19, 2015

Howdy ho!  To whomever is still around…

I knew I would be back here at some point because I keep seeing articles and news stories that catch my eye and I think “Gosh, these would make some good blogging topics!”  But the rest of my life would get in the way or I would get busy binge-watching old episodes of Survivor.  For the past few days I’ve been watching videos and visiting sites relating to this idea of MGTOW.  Men Going Their Own Way.  It’s a very interesting movement and the most serious adherents would probably claim that I have no legitimate business being part of it.  But I beg to differ.

First off, following the above link might not provide a very succinct description of what the movement is about.  Basically, it is men withdrawing from the dating game in a realization that society has stacked the deck against them in the social, economic and political arenas when it comes to relationships and marriage thanks largely to a feminist agenda.  I’m sure I have had a feminist reader or two (but prolly not much after today) but the MGTOW movement, while recognizing that men are victims of a rigged system, do not necessarily hate women.  They simply distrust them.  And instead of having an agenda that seeks to turn the clock back (like many traditionalists would do) they simply come to the realization that the entire game is simply not worth it.  And so they go their own way.  Which is to say, they aren’t interested in marriage or relationships with women.

It’s not really a new thing at all, now that it comes to me.  Monasteries and Convents have espoused a similar view for centuries, except instead of individuals going their own way, they decided to go God’s way.  I visited a local monastery a couple of times during the past year and bought a book on the subject and have to admit that there was some appeal to the concept of withdrawing from the fight altogether.  heaven knows my life over the past few years has become more and more monastic in the way it looks.  Other than the occasional porn.   But even right down to spending more time outside, with my newest hobby: beekeeping.  A body can learn a lot about about females when you are spending time with about 60,000 of them.

MGTOW is a movement that would seem tailor-made for a person like me except for one thing: I’m married.  The fundamental tenet of the movement (and the monastic movement) is that you eschew marriage and relationships in order to devote yourself too other things.  The secular version seems to be about devoting oneself to oneself.  But regardless, the focus is on investing oneself into other things besides the modern practice of constantly chasing and seeking after female approval and validation.

Before I go a lot further, I’m well aware that women suffer from similar conditions: seeking after male validation and approval.  However I don’t believe it is as acute as it is for men and I’ll explain why that is presently.

When I look at my present circumstances, and any sort of quest for freedom, happiness or contentment, I find myself staring down a very deep abyss that has kept me from making any sort of move since starting this blog.  Basically, the one suggestion that I have never taken but has been suggested over and over and over again is the route of divorce.   Family law takes a dim view of a guy walking away just for the hell of it.  While sexual inertness could be a just cause in some eyes, the law doesn’t see it on the same terms as infidelity.  Walking away would be a case of economic and familial Armageddon.  It would be mean putting the kids through a lot of turmoil, it would mean a terrible drop in our standard of living, which already rests right on the poverty line.  This does not mean I could never exercise that option, but what we have going now is probably the best option.  Basically, I have my space and she has hers.  And we share the kids while I pay for pretty much all the necessities and she pays for what she wants.

I’m sure I have mentioned it before, but Arwyn is not very good at managing resources of any sort.  So my presence does at least provide some financial stability for the boys as they grow up and hopefully get to a spot where they might be able to fend for themselves.  There’s mitigating circumstances on that as well, relating to disabilities but I’m thinking I’ll end up taking that on eventually on my own.  At least I’m prepared to do that if/when necessary.

One thing about the MGTOW movement is that there has not really been much of a conversation about guys like me: guys who discovered the “Red Pill” only after already being married.  Most f the movement’s energy is directed toward preventing guys from making the mistakes we’ve already made.  Which is all fine and good, but I think there is a place for us married guys at the table.  Afterall, we have inside knowledge of what the danger signs are and what awaits the unwary and hapless fellow who happens to get involved to the point where he’s looking at all of the liabilities and none of the benefits of marriage.

I’m certain Arwyn has weighed the pros and cons of divorce in her own mind.  If I were making more money to be able to afford lots of child support and alimony, she would have either kicked me out or moved out a long time ago as she isn’t much happier than I am with where we are in the marriage.  We haven’t acknowledged our wedding anniversary for about 5 years and it’s been about that long since I made any effort towards valentines day.  I do help the boys pick out stuff for her for Christmas and her birthday.  In a lot of ways, we have sort of gone our own way.   But there is still expectations that I pay for everything, take care of the house and the food while not having a lot of say in what happens within the house.  I can;t leave my little office without her rushing at me to fix or solve some problem that she has with her stuff or with the boys.  I’m expected to continue to be her utility while she gets to be…I suppose a baby sitter?

The kicker is that I haven’t really seen any indication that this condition would be substantially improved living with a different woman.  In fact it could be a lot worse if I was living with someone who screamed and yelled all the time.  Sure, there hasn’t been any sex in over 5 years but it’s not like the sex was that great before that.  Basically I’ve arrived at the dominant conclusion within the MGTOW movement: The pussy just isn’t worth it.

To be fair, I have absolutely no doubt that there are women who have arrived at a similar conclusion when it comes to men, except that a premium has never really been placed on male sexuality as much as his ability to provide.  However the women who gravitated here were ones who had the misfortune of seeing their own sexual values minimized, which given all of the sexual stereotypes amounted to a sort of wild blind-side.   I’ve seen pics of a few and these were not ugly women either.  They simply ended up with guys who checked out of the typical sexual game far earlier than expected.  I’m not dismissing these ladies at all, but I can only relate best to my own experience.

If I decide to, I might expound more on the topic as I think more on it.  It’s what has been resonating with me lately, although I’m not as much onto disliking women as much as many of the folks in the MGTOW universe.  Women are people and aren’t inherently better or worse than men, although in the modern climate I’m not sure that women and men are necessarily good for each other.  Arwyn is not necessarily a bad person, but I don’t think she has ever really and truly valued me in the same way I valued her.  At some point I became a utility and a non-person except when she had some need.  I might have been going about things in a similar fashion in going after her to meet my sexual needs, but I was at least willing to look for some common ground and willing to try to negotiate.  Now that the sexual shop is closed, I find I’m still doling out the utility but get zero in return.  I find over time I’m less willing to simply go along with her crap just because.