Tossing the Libido Potato

09/29/2005

Thursday

Last night we all went to the Three Wishes concert downtown. One pleasant surprise was the opening act was Hootie and the Blowfish. They played their main hits and exited the stage to make room for Amy Grant. The downside was that it was a school night, and the boys were already tired by the time the thing started at eight. Plus I had to hoist Thomas up so he could see. The boy weighs around 70 pounds and by the end of the first hour I was tired! So was he. Since Arwyn met me downtown, I was able to take him home early. It wasn’t terribly loud, but loud enough that Thomas was covering his ears, mostly as the crowd erupted. He could scream with the best of them and had a good time but had enough by the 9. I took him home, gave him a quick bath and put him to bed. He was out in minutes. Arwyn stayed until the end, about 90 minutes later.

BTW, if these folks come to your town, I advise not wasting a lot of time standing in line to submit a wish. The televised wishes were picked by producers way in advance. Enjoy the concert and excitement.

Reading the various blogs about libidos has been instructive. I was the one who opined that there wasn’t enough input from LL women, and I appreciate the insight.

In Leela’s first post on the subject, she admitted that the idea of a woman not wanting to have sex with the man they claimed to love was a mystery to her. She echoed what most of the guys we read have been saying for quite some time. Lizzie and Wendy also give some insights on the topic from the point of view of ex-LL women. If there is hope to be gleaned, it is the fact that they are presently in recovery. Dewdrop still remains the most current, persistent and reliable member of the LL camp. Most LL women are simply not going to give much coverage to the topic of sex at all. Even in Dewdrop’s case, the sexual conflict and tension makes up only a portion of her content.

In my case, much of the advice given by these helpful friends has proven fruitless. The idea of the man romancing his wife with wine, roses, bubble baths, backrubs, doing more housework and listening unconditionally are all cliche. Granted, they may work in some cases, as such cliche’s have a grain of truth in them. But one needs only reverse the situation to see the absurdity of this approach. C-Marie’s situation is a case in point. Mowing the lawn, changing the oil, wearing sexy lingerie, walking around naked, giving backrubs, frontrubs and talking are getting her nowhere. The plight of a woman married to a LL man highlights the complexity of sexual aversion.

As if we need another example, remember the cage? Arwyn could have had every single thing on Leela’s list of suggestions unconditionally and without a wit of sexual pressure. I would have licked the bottom of her shoes if would have made her happy. The entire premise of the chastity experience is for the man to meet his wife’s needs and desires apart from sexual expectations. In fact, the expectations are that will be *no* sex unless the woman wants it. And the men into this kink absolutely love it.

But women don’t want what they say they want. They want the man to do their bidding, but wants it out of his innate desire to please her. He should do it because he loves her, not because of rewards, being locked in a cage or in exchange for sex.

The exact same thing men want; women who desire their mates out of love, not in exchange for housework, backrubs, money or because they threaten them with walking out or an affair.

What many women say is that they need to be relaxed in order to be intimate. She needs to NOT be tired, stressed and overworked. That is a myth. During the courtship phase, many women are jumping the bones of men they barely know, while maintaining a seperate household and holding a full-time job. They sacrifice sleep, food and whatever other luxuries a married woman says she has to have, in order to get the man’s attention and affection.

Spare me. They’ve simply gotten every bit as lazy as the men they are depriving, and shifted their priorities, same as the men who play a similar game with romance and courtship. Lazy and self-centered. As a man, I can admit my bit in it. Not many women can, tho. I’ve yet to see or hear a woman confess to laziness in romance. She’s working her ass off for all the worong things, getting bitter about the lack of support she’s getting from hubby when she has, in fact, alienated her most potent source of support and comfort.

I credit Phoenix and Leela’s success with some very clear expectations and communication, up front. Phoenix was extraordinarily wise in bypassing the typical bullshit pattern of the rest of us by spelling out what he expected outright. He said that he expected sex on a daily basis and backed it up with a factual admission that there might be consequences if this couldn’t be maintained. It wasn’t an ultimatum, because at that moment Leela had the option of walking away. She didn’t have to accept these terms and a different woman would not have. Another woman might have tried to get him to compromise. Or maybe taken him up on it without delivering and hope he wouldn’t stick to his guns. In anycase, his honesty was rewarded with her honesty. And I don’t hear many regrets coming from her, compared to other female bloggers. It works and apparently works well. Whatever else happens, at least there is no game playing in that regard. They were and are both being smart and realistic. And loving. Her latest really hit it good.

This business of trying to woo the wife back; I’m inspired by those for whom this has worked. But in almost everycase it apparently was the woman who had the change of heart. The man’s perseverance certainly was a key factor. It was necessary but not sufficient. At some point, the LL woman woke up and turned herself around. A man’s capacity to change a woman’s mind is severely limited. We can try to entice, cajole, threaten or whatever, but if she is unwilling it isn’t going to happen.

This is the reality I’m currently facing. Will Arwyn *ever* turn around? Will she ever see what other women have realized? Or will I be too old to function by that time?

Keeping faith is difficult.

D.

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7 Responses to Tossing the Libido Potato

  1. Leela Lamore says:

    WoW Digger as per usual you take the words right out of my mouth! I have just done a draft of exactly what you have written geeez now I have to go change it some … or you think I can just copy past your entire post into my blog LOLOLOL.
    You are so so right. What I was trying to do was put myself in someone else’s shoes and I don’t know if that worked so well. Every situation is different, every relationship is different and for me to advise .. What ever I write is only going to target a very small group of people.
    Thank you for taking what I wrote in perspective against my entire writing. What Phoenix & I have I am very proud of so thank you for the credit and the links *Hug*.

  2. Rob says:

    Well D, you’ve basically covered all the bases in your latest posting so what’s next for you? You can either grow old hoping that your wife will change her views, you can leave her for someone more compatible, you can stay married to her and take on a mistress on the side, or you can resign yourself to your situation and regularly wank away in private while not whining about it. And just so you know, my friend, for reasons that I will not go into here, my wife has granted me sex in the last 2 years less often than yours and so I have chosen the last option. And that is why you will read no blog of mine. Whining about it here is a waste of electrons for me since I’m staying in my marriage. And so it goes…

  3. morgen z says:

    priorties do shift as relationships evolve, that’s not a question. is laziness and self-centerness a factor? maybe?

    i can say in my case that yes, i got wrapped up in “priorties” that were all part of the game of trying to grab a piece of the “good life”- house/car/job/ and bringing in the income to support all those material things. i’ll admit that i got sucked into the belief that having those things would bring happiness, comfort to my family.

    i hate to say this, and i hope i’m wrong, but i think something very signifigant would have to happen for arwyn to realize her ways and work to change.

    i think there is a very good possibility that i would not be the person i am today had husband not had an affair. in fact, i would probably be the same woman i was a few years ago, wrapped up and focused on all the wrong prorities in life…. and wondering why i’m not as happy as i though i’d be.

  4. Anonymous says:

    You’re right, its not *just* tiredness.

    But you’re wrong when you say that’s a myth.

    Maybe she is working full time and maintaining a separate house. Let me tell you, working full time and keeping my apartment picked up was NOTHING compared to working even part time and looking after kids. And keeping my own place picked up was just cleaning up after me – not making sure that DH had clean socks and there were towels for everybody. Living alone is a totally different energy from sharing a house, and bills, and a car, and kids. Especially for someone with introvert tendencies in the first place.

    I think a lot of women go through LL spells when their children are young. There’s a lot of need, and a lot of exhaustion, and a lot of misunderstandings and loss of communication between a husband and wife when kids come along. Many women write about being “touched out,’ and honestly craving alone time more than any together time. Its a common discussion at playgroups with moms of small kids — “Um, any idea when my sex drive will come back?”

    And hormones change – I found that when I was on the pill, and again when I was nursing my first child. LL doesn’t even *begin* to describe the sensation of that – I could remember what it was *like* to want sex, but the idea was both exhausting and vaguely repulsive to me. I couldn’t get wet, no matter how hard we tried, and I just couldn’t get off. None of this “I’m a bit tired, but once we start I get into it” that some people describe. I knew that it was going to either hurt, or (once KY got involved) just not feel like *anything*, with the added frustration of feeling the ghost of pleasure and not being able to feel the actual pleasure

    I had to go off the pill to get any libido at all back, and I’d been fairly HL before that. Funny – you go on the pill for the promise of loads of spontaneous scrumping, and then while you’re on it, it kills all desire for sex of any kind, ESPECIALLY spontaneous sex. DH was more than happy to go back to condoms if it meant I was a lusty and willing participant again. But it took awhile to get back in the swing of things after that, because we’d built up a mental load of issues around sex during our dry spell.

  5. Lizzie says:

    Digger, You hit the nail dead smack on the head. If a LL woman isn’t motivated to improve her libido, nothing is going to change that. Unfortunately the primary thing that I’ve seen work is when the husband has an affair. THEN the light goes on in the wife’s head and she realizes that she’d better step up or she’s going to be all alone.

    And the other has been drugs. When a woman’s libido suddenly changes after starting a new med,especially birth control or antidepressents, that’s usually the problem.

    Rob’s description of the four options is good too. What do you want to do at this point?

  6. Square1 says:

    I have to agree with the poster above. Sharing a household is far more exhausting than only having to maintain your own life. It’s more frustrating. And being too tired is not a myth. It’s not a very good excuse, but it’s not a myth either.

    In my case I feel like I’m trying to woo my husband back into the desire to woo me… but ultimately any change in his behavior will have to be his own choice. I just have to remind myself not to “repay evil for evil”. In other words just because I feel he’s slacking on meeting the needs that I have as a woman does not justify me denying his needs as a man. But taking the high road can sure leave you exhausted, resentful and feeling taken advantage of sometimes. Add to it criticism about the weaknesses you are struggling to overcome as an individual, and little to no recognition of what you go out of your way to try to give… and it’s very discouraging indeed. I need to stop now… before I start crying.

    I hope things turn around for you D. I hope somehow Arwyn’s eyes are opened before you burn out and give up. I really hope that for you, for her, and for your precious children. Take care D.

  7. aphron says:

    All will work itself out in time. I know it’s frustrating. Although Wife and I had our LL moments, they weren’t as long as yours. The only person with the answer is Arywn. Unfortunately, she is not too helpful. We’ve all outlined your choices, none pleasant. I agree about the helping, romance, etc. really doesn’t chang a LL’s mind. It is up to them to find a way to fix whatever problem they have.

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