Talk Night

Yesterday, Arwyn had her next individual session. She had done some work on the ENQ and shared it with the therapist, but didn’t quite finish it completely so brought it home to do more work on it. We had designated last night as a sort of “talk night” where we would talk. Much of this was thwarted by the appearance of an HBO special on autism, which we watched. It was interesting, but really dug into our time as it was two hours long!

When it was finally over, she was ready to talk. Her opener was to suggest that she review her ENQ with me. I was a bit ambivalent about that, since I didn’t have my own copy on hand and thought it might be something we did together in therapy. But she was somewhat insistent and got her paper and read her comments that she had written. I listened as she read the entire thing before making any comments.

1. Affection: she described her need for affection as being moderate and that she liked and need nonsexual affection on a regular basis. I can’t remember how often she said she needed that, but it seemed higher than what she was offering.
2. Sexual fulfillment: She described her need for this as being moderate and that she would like sexual fulfillment once per week. This was kind of a stunner, because she has not been giving any indications of that at all. When I mentioned that, she emphasized fulfillment and that without that, she more less figured “What’s the use?” I told her that while it was possible to have sex without fulfillment, it was not possible to have sexual fulfillment without actually having sex.

3. Conversation: she mentioned that she had a high need for conversation. No surprises there, but again she hasn’t been offering as much as she seemed to be wanting. We do have differing conversation styles, which do sort of interfere with god conversation as I have in the past been known to be a bit argumentative. She did mention that I had gotten better about that in the past few months.

4. Recreational companionship: she said she had a high need for recreational companionship, and wanted us to do more things as a family. No surprise there, as I’m prone to wanting to veg out when I’m not working. However, this is another area that we’ve making some improvement in past months.

5. Honesty and openness: she said she had a moderate for honesty and openness, but admitted that she hasn’t always been so good about this herself, specifically mentioning her handling of our credit card crisis. Again, we could point to improvements in this area in past months.

6. Attractive spouse: She described her need for an attractive spouse to be moderate. She described her past partner/dates as being tall, thin, and neat. I later described them as being somewhat metrosexual sounding, which she didn’t appreciate too much. But my weight loss has helped my score in that area. But I’ve still got quite a lot of the farm boy in me, and I work outside and get dirty and do so without making a big deal about it and am not particularly fazed by it as much as she would like. Oh well. She did specifically mention my farm background being a factor against her suburban semi-sterile lifestyle as being a factor in this, so I got the impression that she was willing to make allowances here.

7. Financial support: she said she was satisfied with this, although she did say that was not always the case, which led to the credit card crisis. But she does feel her needs are being met.

8. Domestic support: I thought I was going to get it here, but she did not harp on that very much. She mentioned that we did sort of have an agreement about this early in our marriage that she would clean if I cooked and was okay with that arrangement. She talked a bit about the clutter that gets out of control at times on her own end. Her own mother was somewhat compulsive about keeping a clean house, and she tried for awhile to hold that standard but decided she was driving herself crazy trying to do that and I agreed that it was not worth all the stress that standard caused.

9. Family commitment: she had a high need for family commitment (no surprise) and admitted that things had gotten better here, but she did want more in this area. The fact that I was with the boys while she did her church meetings and step studies did score points here.

10. Admiration: she had a high need for affirming words, and this was probably a big weakness for me where I need to work harder. I can be overly critical and stingy with affirming words, so this is an area that I definitely have room to grow. While there have been some improvements, I know I need to do better.

After a discussion of the ENQ, we talked a bit more and then got into some hugging and kissing. It was getting late, thanks to the whole HBO special, but she seemed game. We really needed to get over this next hurdle, and so we worked on it. She shut the bedroom door and we both got naked. She kneeled up in bed, waiting for me to lay down so she could get on top of me but I was not having that. I wanted it to be different than the standard script. So I sat up and she got up in my lap, facing me and we just hugged and kissed like that for awhile. Not a lot of genital contact there, but that was not the idea here. T was intimacy and connection, and we seemed to have that. It was just two naked bodies connecting and it was very nice. She did comment after awhile that her knees were getting sore so I laid down and she got on top. There was some grinding around and she mentioned that all the antihistamines were probably making her dry, which has been another chronic problem. But I don’t see her going for any real solutions to that, such as lube of any sort, but we’ll see.

She was grinding around on me and I was getting over heated and holding an erection was challenging. Much of it as just psychological pressure (and a hideous lack of practice) but it was also that this position was a bit too submissive to maintain for the whole time. I told her this, so she let me mount her from the missionary position, and this did work a lot better for me as I was able to get inside of her, with a bit of work.

Love-making/sex has always been a pretty silent/solitary/serious type of thing for us, but we did talk a lot more this time, the two of us. I really did like that, as it did change the dynamic and made the experience a more intimate one for us. I don’t think she had an orgasm, but she did say it felt pretty good because she could better feel me inside of her. She thought it might be because she had tightened up since we hadn’t had sex for so long. I didn’t comment a lot on that, but was thinking that we never did have sex all that much to stretch her out. She tried squeezing and asked if I felt she was tighter and I said that I honestly really had no memory of that, but it did feel good.

No money shot in this scene. Sorry!

Afterwards, we did cuddle and talk a bit more, but it was getting late. She went to the bathroom and took a quick shower and I slept the best I had in months. If we could get more practice, I can see there being a lot less pressure and tension and maybe more fun. As it was, it was a good experience, which is more than I can say for other encounters I’ve had with her and she would likely say the same.

Of course, it will take more practice. I went through this whole script last year, too, where we thought we were starting a whole new beginning. We do have some advantages this time around that we didn’t last time, but it is going to still require a lot of focused effort. Maybe this is where the counseling effort can kick in, as it at least looks like we are getting some where with it. It might be akin to Dumbo’s magic feather.

Thanks to all who commented on the last post. I especially appreciate the women who stepped up, having had similar-type experiences. Yeah, Hazel, I did think a lot of you. That’s why you always made my blogroll, because I figured your views were the closest to my wife’s! To be honest, I nearly disabled comments there, because I knew I was blowing off a lot of steam, which is what I do here. I’m going to talk about all sorts of vile things, like separation and divorce because writing allows me to process my thoughts and experiences. It’s a far cry from actually doing it, tho. How long did I contemplate counseling before actually doing it? There’s no rush to do anything, here, but I’m also not going to skulk around, and hide. I want to square off on the issues, not retreat. Not talking honestly about it in my own online forum would be silly and just an exercise in self-avoidance. And I’m tired of being an avoider.

D.

My Two Choice Dilemma

When I got home from work last night, I had worked out and was physically tired.  However, getting in better shape and working out does help me mentally and emotionally and I find I’m more resilient under pressure.   I’m going to need every bit of it.

Qrwyn started earlier in the week working on me and trying to talk me into going to her church with her and boys for Good Friday services.   I was very reluctant, but she voiced how this was important to her and I figured it wouldn’t be that big of a deal if I went.  I’m willing to sacrifice in order to make my wife happy and, even though I was tired, this would be a comparatively minor sacrifice.  It was a lovely service that included all the kids and it really did fit the mood and tone of the evening, where they showed some clips from the Mel Gibson movie set to music.  Pretty graphic for the youngsters and was probably the most violent thing MY kids have ever seen.  But they did really well, despite some yawning toward the end.  I don’t many people at this church, but I do like the ones I do know and the music they sang was from more traditional hymns that I actually knew the tune for and the words were on the big screen.  They did have the big wooden cross in front and had everyone take communion in front of it.  It suitably marked the occasion which I should probably blog about but will leave that for others more capable than me.

Which might be pretty much everyone.

We got home and it was past the boys’ bedtime so they were quickly put to bed.  I was sitting in a chair just thinking, and Arwyn sort of sidled up and said, “Are you just going to sit there all night?”

Hmm.  Okay…

I was tired in anycase, and got ready for bed.  Then Arwyn stated her intention to go to sleep.

Oh.

It wasn’t even 9:00 so I considered the possibility of going back to the computer for a bit as if I go to sleep before 10, I’ll be up at 4.  But I decided that we at least needed to talk.  My opener was to ask her how long it had been since she was baptized, “Almost exactly a year ago, right?”  She stated that it was.  Regular readers might remember that it was also around this time when we had sex for the first time in over a year and what would turn out to be the last time in over a year.  I also asked her about the ENQ and she said she intended to fill it out.  Hopeful sign there.

We were both lying in bed, holding hands and then embraced and kissed for a bit.  I was stroke=ing her back and hair and she was stroking my back.  This went on for quite awhile and I was feeling less tired and more aroused.  She said she wanted me to talk, but I was at a loss as to what she was after.  So we talked a bit about the church service and then she asked the question, “Do you ever feel like you’re at war with God?”

Funny question, but I was keen to answer.  Basically, yes.  At times, it seems like God is a very sadistic Being who seems to put an enormous premium on suffering.  The Bible is all about people who have suffered at the hands of other people, at their own hand or even at His hands.  Whether or not God causes suffering can be questioned, but unquestionably He allows it and uses for His own purposes.  So, yeah, I struggle and grapple with God on any number of fronts.  However, I also subscribe to the view that a lot of the suffering we endure is largely of our own making as our fight with God is more of a fight with our own selves.

She seemed satisfied with this and didn’t really follow up accept to stress the importance of trusting God.

There was more intermittent kissing and hugging and general making out.  I wanted to make love to my wife this night.  As my hands wandered under her shirt, one hand got into the forbidden zone which would be anywhere near a nipple.  She grabbed my arm and moved it away and I asked her why.  She said it made her feel uncomfortable.

There was a long period of silence interrupted when she announced she had to  turn off some lights and take a decongestant.  when she returned some minutes later we sort of resumed the kissing and then she said she was tired.  After some silence, I asked her, “How can you say that you’re interested in sex?  I don’t get it because you don’t seem to ever want it!”

She said she was interested in only having good sex.  Which led to the next burning question, “Just what exactly would good sex look like to you?”

“Well, I can’t go for an hour.  An hour would be too long.”

“Okay, an hour is too long for you.  That still doesn’t tell me what good sex looks like for you.”

“Well, I’d like to be satisfied>”

“Oh, you mean you’d like an orgasm!”

“Yes.”

“And that’s been a problem for pretty much most of our marriage.”

“Yes.”

“And you’ve gone on our entire marriage without mentioning this?”

“Yes.”

“Because you were afraid of hurting me?”

“Yes, that’s a big part of it.”

She was not telling me anything I didn’t already know or suspect, anyway.  I was past  being hurt by that.  But the next round did put me squarely in the two-choice dilemma.

“So you want to have more orgasm?” I asked, trying to reinforce the point.

“Yes, but I don’t want them through your hands, through your mouth pr through any mechanical means.”

“Which pretty much means only through intercourse.”

“Yes.”

“Only about 1 in 5 women have orgasms that way.” I countered.  I was pulling the statistic out of the air, or so I thought.  As it turns out, I was just about right. (that’s the youtube link, here’s one to the text.and here’s one byDr. Phil.

” I have had them in the past.”

“Well yeah, when you and your partner were  both younger and in better shape.  We’re both older now, and in different shape. “  I did not point out that I was in better shape than I was when we got married or that the pubic bone she liked grinding up against was now more exposed for her enjoyment thanks to the weight loss.

But I went in a different (and perhaps predictable)  direction.  “Have you ever had an orgasm with me?”

“Yes.”

“Have you ever faked an orgasm?”

“I don’t think so.”

“So you want good sex, where you have orgasms, but if it isn’t just intercourse, you don’t want it. You don’t want me to use my hands because it makes you feel uncomfortable.”

“Yes.”

“So that’s why you’re uncomfortable using your hands on me.”

“Yeah, that’s a lot of it.”

“So if I ever got injured or paralized, sex would pretty much be over.”

“Yeah, I guess.”

It’s now midnight, she’s tired and I am frustrated beyond words.  Sex tonight is out.

As she falls asleep, I lie awake, wondering what the future holds for us.  It seems impossibly bleak to me beyond words.  Basically, I’m not going to have much of a sex life (if any) with this woman unless she decides to change.  She shows no signs of changing or maturing or developing sexually.  I’m changing the things I can within myself and I do try to do things she likes but she seems unwilling or unable to reciprocate.  She wants orgasms but is unwilling to to let me out of the procrustean bed in order to accomodate her.

So basically, I can

a. Stay with her, and totally sacrifice my sexuality and my integrity as a sexual person but my family remains somewhat intact

b. Leave her,  and sacrifice my family but keep remnants of my sexual integrity

Or wait around hoping that an option c becomes available.

D.

Blown Away

Just a short update on stuff around here.  For those of you that were hoping for something more profound in my podcast on my other blog, stay tuned.  I’m putting something a bit more significant together that better extends my own thoughts and feelings, but it might not be posted for a bit because life is busy.

Speaking of RL, we did have one of those tornadoes decide  to touch down in our backyard.  Maybe 60 seconds of terror and it was all over.  I felt it before I heard it, as the walls started shaking.  The power blinked but it was otherwise okay and by the time I tuned in to the TV, it was over for us.  We had some minor roof damage, but that will be fixed today thanks to a neighbor who has some roofing experience.  Our neighborhood seems to be the only one that was hit around the county, as most folks were grousing more about the hail.  We got that, too, but not quite as scary as a twister.  Everyone was shook up but okay.  The kids slept through the whole thing, lucky for them.  There were a few trees down and a carport and a porch was lost, but the houses all held up pretty well.  Georgia gets as many tornadoes as anyone else, but we tend to get them spread around the year as opposed the northern folks who get them in April and May.  Having lived in Ames, which is part of Tornado Alley, I’m no stranger to these things but it has been awhile since I’ve been that close to one.  It’s a lot scarier at night when you can not see when it’s coming.

Other news…

Last week, after Arwyn’s counseling session she was keen to talk, so we did for a bit.   I don’t feel like we really got anywhere, tho.  Her stance mirrors what a lot of you have said in that all this is going to take time and that the sex will just have to follow along behind trust, and closeness and other intimacy.  My stance is that one of the problems is that sex follows behind everything and therefore gets left behind every time.  It could help build trust, intimacy and closeness but she’s not on board with that.  This week is my week with the therapist and I’ve got a head of steam built up about it that maybe we can work on.  She did say that he did bring up the “sex stuff” so at least he’s not ignoring it altogether.  If his specialty was in any other area, avoiding would be a major issue.

Okay, time to get to work on the video!

D.

355

“A woman is a lot like an old car.  How many times on a cold morning, when you really needed it, she wouldn’t turn over?” - Rodney Dangerfield

I said I was going to vent, but then I didn’t have anything real specific to vent about.  But if I dig deep enough or hold out long enough, something is bound to turn up.  It always does.

Thinking on the discussion of my last post, it will be interesting to see if/when we ever get into moving in a more concrete direction and towards some tangible solutions.  Arwyn has been going along with this, which is more than I can say about any of the other things that I have tried.  That’s something, right there.  It will be interesting to see if she is the one to cut and run when or if we get into deeper waters.  She’s gotten better at introspection thanks somewhat to her 12-step group.  However, when it comes to actually doing something, she is a lot less committed and resilient.  That’s where I start to have problems with therapy based more on talk than actual behavior.  People seem to believe that they can talk themselves in to or out of anything regardless of what they actually do.  Verbal behavior is a starting point, but if that’s all there is, we might as well live apart and talk on the phone.

When I said Arwyn had turned her sleeping posture where her head is at my head, it’s worth pointing out that this is not a consistent thing.  Some nights, her head is at the other end of the bed but this seems to be happening less and less.  However, she is still wrapped in a totally separate blanket, so there isn’t even any shared body heat during the cold nights.  She’d rather wear extra layers of clothing.

This morning, I did try snuggling up a bit before the alarm went off.  I would classify this as trying to initiate something.  What I’m initiating, I’m not sure.  Physical intimacy of some sort, certainly.  I snuggled into her back and put my arm around her and when my hand landed on her breast, she didn’t jerk away.  But neither did I get any encouragement.  Of any sort.  In fact, Arwyn was inching over…in the opposite direction away from me until she finally spoke up and complained that I was pushing her off the bed.

It was a bit chilly because Arwyn had the fan on, but it became obvious that there was no warmth to be had there.  So I curled up completely under the blankets (which I suppose you could call my blankets) and determined that I needed to warm and comfort myself.  And then the alrm went off.  She felt around for my face to give me a good morning kiss and discovered I was totally underneath them, pulled them back,giggled and kissed me before padding off to the shower. 

We are coming up to a certain anniversary celibation I entitled last year 442.  That was the number of days we had gone without any sort of sexual encounter.  At this point we are at day 355.  If we get to 442 again, I don’t think it would be unfair to say that we might be beyond the skills of this particular Christian sex therapist.  We already have a baseline and it is pretty low.  It’s not as if we’re setting a high standard and asking to go to 2x a day here.  It just has to be better than the previous year.  How hard can that be?  Is that asking to much?

D.

Counseling #2 - Nothing Much New

All I can say is that there were no new revelations or breakthroughs during our second counseling session.  I think it was Emily who suggested that real work didn’t happen until session #3.  In my case, it may be session #4.

This session was spent with the counselor getting more background on our parents.  I can’t think of much that was revealed that I haven’t talked about before.  Her Dad’s alcoholism was a major theme, as well as the tendency of him to favor her two younger brothers over her.  For instance, she’d ask for a game or something for Christmas and it would appear under the tree…for her brother!  She spent quite a bit of time going over the strains of that relationship, and then when my name came up she dealt with comparing my frugality juxtaposed with her father’s monetary generosity.  Thing was, her dad was so fraught with guilt, he felt the need to compensate in the form of money and stuff.  So while I was trying to pinch pennies when we were starting out with very little money and lots of debt, she rebelled and went out and bought stuff anyway.  This just made things worse, money-wise.  So in a certain sense when comparing me to her father, I was coming up short in the money/provider department.

That was a bit difficult to hear, but I couldn’t apologize for that.  But I could acknowledge that I enabled it by avoiding talking to her about her spending.  I saw a lot of stuff coming into the house and didn’t question it much, figuring her dad was bankrolling her.  That was a mistaken assumption as she was using her credit cards and pretty much maxed them out.  We finally, finally have those crooks from Visa paid off.  They have steadily been shortening the grace period, raising the interest rate, increasing the amount of time on the penalty rate from 6 to 12 months and raising the late fees .  Playing with credit cards is like playing with poisonous snakes.  Sooner or later you will get bit.

I talked a bit about growing up on the farm and how that took priority over everything in the family.  It was an oppressive enough atmosphere that looked a lot like a sweatshop type of thing to us kids that we all live as far as Iowa as possible with my brother on the West coast, my sister on the East coast and me in the deep south.  But I think climate had quite a lot to do with it, too, seeing as you Midwestern folks are suffering this winter.  I have not forgotten frigid mornings fighting snow and ice or sweltering humid summers. 

I sat in the counseling session and found myself wondering why we both needed to be there and why we needed a babysitter.  Reflective listening is comforting in a way, but it was not getting us anywhere.  Little new ground and certainly nothing approaching resolution.  I’m willing to give it a half dozen more sessions but at some point there needs to be some progress made considering the time and money invested.  Arwyn and I have made progress on our own individually but not much together as a couple.  The next session, Arwyn will be going on her own followed by me going on my own the following week.  Maybe those sessions will shake something loose and I’m willing to stick with going a few rounds with that.  The fees are reasonable at $75 per session, but not if we’re not getting anywhere.  I might as well spend the money on lottery tickets.

One thing of note, is that starting in January (well before counseling appeared on the radar) I did confront Arwyn about her odd sleeping posture, i.e. sleeping with her head at the foot of the bed and wrapped in a totally separate blanket.  She has since reoriented her self back to having her head at the head of the bed, but she is still wrapped in her own blanket.  Cold weather would seem to be opportune snuggling weather since her chief complaint about sleeping close to me is that I’m too hot but that hasn’t happened.  So maybe there is some progress in there somewhere, but it has been glacial at best.  Warm weather WILL be back soon enough and then the hot complaint will kick in.

So you Yankees just hang tough and stay warm! 

D.

Okay, okay, okay

Alright already!

 

Nothing like telling the entire internet that you’re going to do something to put pressure on a body to actually do it, is there? And then the comments that dug it in, I was feeling like my back was against the wall!

But that’s sort of why I did it that way. I needed to corner myself in order to make escape futile. And it turns out that things just might fall together just right in order to make this happen in a profitable way. We’ll see.

I just happened to have some real loose time on my hands this afternoon where I couldn’t get any work done or already had done what it is I was trying to get done. I made that call and got right through to the fellow that I needed to talk to. He seemed nice enough over the phone. He sort of outlined his schedule and then we sort of got things together where I have an appointment next week. And it just so happens that Arwyn’s mother will be in town so I’m hoping she’ll be able to watch the boys for us if I can get her to go in for that initial consultation. Arwyn’s probably going to be feeling some king-sized pressure but this does put the ball squarely in her court. When I tell her about this, she’ll have to decide to go or not to go which will give me a more definitive answer as to her commitment one way or another. I suppose she could agree to go and still not be committed, but it would at least show a willingness to go through some motions which we haven’t even done that much up until now.

I did ask him his approach and he told me all about how he uses family systems, and likes to go back a couple of generations on the family system. This is a red flag for me, because while I see it is useful to learn from the past, one can not live back there. This is one reason why the 12 step approach seems so impotent to me is because Arwyn is spending all of her time back there in the past while ignoring the clear and present threat where she is at. I asked him if he had heard of Schnarch and he said he had used some of Schnarch’s material in his training so there was at least a glimmer of hope there. Remember his specialty is Christian sex therapy, so it will be interesting to see how he applies his eclectic tool kit here.

I was nervous as hell making that call, but felt better after making the appointment. But now I’m nervous as hell telling Arwyn about it.

We’ll see. Hang on to your butts.

D.

Out of Sync

I’m not sure what to write by way of an update. In some ways, it seems like there is progress. In other ways, it is the same old thing.

Since the Shower Scene, there has not been a repeat of that. However, I have spent time in the bathroom while she showers and I shave and we can generally talk. Generally. But her gut reaction to me being there remains; get the hell out of there as quickly as possible. Over time, that reaction has become more and more pronounced. I’ve asked her more than once if she minded and she said she didn’t but…

The idea of this, from my POV is just to be around each other in an “adult” way without the kids hanging all over us. Being comfortable with each other’s and our own nakedness is a big developmental task. However, I’m seeing her shift back into the old pattern. It isn’t just her being naked around me, it’s her comfort with my nakedness. Now I admit that bleeds over into my own thinking sometimes and it is difficult being naked around her for that reason. I sense her anxiety and unease about it and it gets my own anxiety going. But I get on with it. These times still have this over hanging tension to them, though. I was hoping some familiarity might help alleviate things. Like any other stage of development, when a body first tries it is awkward and uncomfortable but eventually you get the hang of it and master it. Tying your shoes isn’t a big deal anymore once you’ve mastered it. Neither is swimming or running. Getting over the fear of the water involves having some good times in the water over a period of time.

But there is a deeper more pervasive pattern that I am trying to overcome, here. It’s the pattern of avoidance. Yep. I am sick and tired of being an avoider. I am also sick and tired of living with an avoider. Outside of moving out of the house (still an option) I can only realistically control how much of an avoider I am. Arwyn is going to be whatever she is going to be as long as she decides to be that way. I can enrich the environment and put out the salt block, but she isn’t going for it until she decides. And one reality I’m dealing with is the unpleasant realization that she is every bit of a selfish prick as I am. I’ve been in denial about that since forever.

Instead of stayiing up until 1 a.m., I’ve been going to bed earlier in hopes that her and I might be able to share some sort of meaningful time together. That has not happened as she rolls over to sleep as soon as she hits the pillow. Or she stays up after midnight. So I’ve tried the other end of it in the morning, and that involves the bathroom time mentioned above. Typically, I used to stay in bed while she showered and then I would get up while she was getting the boys ready for school. Now I get up when she does, and then I’m synced up with her and the boys. But there have been no gains in the intimacy department there. She gets dressed and out of the bathroom as quickly as possible. This morning as she was darting out I said, “I’m tired of being an avoider.”

“I need to make breakfast!” was her only reply. She was running 10 minutes ahead of her own schedule because she doesn’t work today and doesn’t shower until after we are all gone. She’s got the day to her self.

The avoider theme has been a constant one and it is one that I’m keen to change. I don’t know if I can live like that anymore.

And then there is the ongoing theme of sexlessness. We’re just a month or so shy of another sexless 12 months. There’s a whole lot of other people bitching and moaning about their pathetic sex lives who have sex a lot more often than that! I would rather have no sex than lousy sex, except here’s the thing; how do you know how lousy it is, unless you actually have it once in a while? It would be nice to have a refresher course in Lousy Sex more often than updating my CPR certificate, you know? And there have been no moves in that direction at all, except from my right palm. And once a week is plenty for that. I find myself reaching for that sort of comfort more when I’m feeling in a pissy mood which is quite a lot over the past few days.

I’m rereading the Schnarch book to pick up what I left out or missed. But I know I’ll end up at the same place: the two-choice dilemma. If I stay married to Arwyn it is likely that my sex life will stay the same. That is, there will be no sex. No bad sex, no good sex, no mediocre sex. There will be no sex. Marriage = no sex. I can hold off and see if there is another equation and I can hope for a different outcome and I can pray for a different outcome. But as long as there is no different outcome, there is no different outcome. There’s the way it ought to be and then there’s the way it is. The way it is, is that there’s no sex within the confines of this marriage. That doesn’t mean it will stay that way, but it isn’t moving any time soon.

I’m frustrated and much of that is a rebound from a couple weeks ago. I guess I hadn’t let go of the hope that I cling to as much as I thought. When I see Arwyn NOT trying, that really makes it difficult for me to even give a shit, you know? It’s like the crack addict who is homeless and is always begging money; do you keep giving them a hand out despite the fact that they show no interest in breaking their addiction or getting a job? It’s like she continues to attend 12-step meetings and knows all the lingo but it seems to translate into zero work on her actual marriage relationship.

Basically we’re back to normal which is out of sync, as usual. We spend a lot more time out than in, it seems.

BTW, my weight went down to 187.6 yesterday. That’s a new low of a more positive sort. My ultimate goal was around 185, even though I haven’t been pushing it very hard. I haven’t been working out as much but I’m still eating a lot better.

D.

Inching Forward

After our talk on Wednesday night, it was all I could do to hold to the progress we’ve already made.  I suspected that there might be a rebound effect as I began looking for the sex to happen.  (Thanks Emily for suggesting I NOT think about it thus ensuring that I think about it more!;-)  But we’ve been so long without it, getting started again would be difficult especially since Arwyn and I had resolved not to have bad sex.  To answer one question on FTN’s little meme, I’m at a point where no sex is better than bad sex, but I would qualify that with the idea that if Arwyn is really trying I would really try, too. 

 

So the last few nights have been tense for me, as I held on and tried to respect the boundaries.  But I did push them a bit.  We’ve spent some time, especially in the mornings holding each other, kissing and generally being affectionate.

 

This morning we were hugging and kissing when Arwyn said, “I need to use the bathroom.”  This usually means that’s it.  And sure enough she did turn on the shower, but she also returned for more hugging and kissing.  That was new.  Then she said she needed to take a shower.  I decided to just see where we were.

 

“Want some company?”

 

She could have declined and I would have been okay with that.  But she shut our door and said “Okay!”  So in we went. 

 

This was slightly erotic but it was more intimate than anything.  She didn’t venture much below my waist but did allow my hand to go there a bit when I was my turn to soap her up.  There’s nothing quite like two soapy bodies in a hot, steamy shower.

 

I could tell Arwyn was really giving it a go to hold on to herself as my hands traveled around her body.  She really did a good job at keeping her own defensiveness in check and I didn’t get overly aggressive with things.  It was just a good way for each of us to get re-acquainted with the other’s naked body and it was a significant developmental step.

 

For my part, I stayed in my “human mind” rather than descending into my reptilian self.  What that means in a practical sense was that I didn’t ever get a real erection.  I had my own anxieties to manage and that took a lot of mental effort.  Arwyn spent zero time stimulating me, so I suppose that made things easier or softer depending on how you look at it. It was just a very nice time washing each other and hugging and kissing and being close to each other while tending to one another.  To me, this is a big part of what intimacy really and truly looks like.  It is tending to each other with gentleness and generosity while allowing ourselves to be tended to. 

 

A big obstacle to intimacy is shame.  It started all the way back in the garden of Eden when Adam and Eve discovered they were naked.  It was the first manifestation of their sin, which drove them into hiding.  We’ve been dealing with shame ever since then and it always looms large casting a long shadow over our attempts to be intimacy.   Whether it’s our hearts, spirits or bodies there is something scary about nakedness.  This shame has been cultivated and nurtured over the centuries and millennia often by religion in order to better manage the people.  Modesty is one thing, but shame is quite another.  Marriage is the one place where we can really work on overcoming our shame.

 

Like most women, Arwyn has body issues.  It’s difficult for us to be naked for any length of time without her pointing out her flaws.  I don’t say much but just let her talk as I’m unsure whether there is anything I can do or say to reassure her.  In the end, it’s up to her to accept her own body.

 

Still, I think I do need to talk with her to let her know that when I look at her, I am not judging or assessing her at all.  I’m appreciating her.  I simply don’t see the flaws as flaws.  I see her as her; my wife.  Her shame keeps her from enjoying her body and keeps her from allowing me to enjoy her.  Actually, I’m at a point where I can enjoy her for her and that includes any extra pounds or marks or whatever.  I want to embrace whatever she brings with her.

 

D.

 

 

   

 

189.8

I haven’t updated my weight in awhile, so I think I’ll do that for a minute. My weight loss efforts actually do figure into things. This morning I was at 189.8 which is about 3 pounds off from my eventual target. Over the holidays, I maxed out at about 196 but fluctuated between there and 192, which my body seems to like. I work on the elliptical and the step mat but not every day or even every other day. Maybe I get 2-3 times a week if I’m lucky simply because demands at work have been quite heavy the past couple of weeks. I did manage to download Stepmania 4.0 CSV which is a very nice looking release and I like many of the new display features. But it has slowed me down and I’ve had to adjust to it.

When I first began losing weight and posting about it, it was largely driven by my need for better health and a changing self-image. I needed to get rid of the pounds because my knees were driving me nuts. Anyone else who struggles know of what I speak. So I did some research, found an exercise that I adore, some foods that I also adore and went for it. The little “Biggest Loser” competition didn’t hurt either. But somewhere towards the end, I mused on these pages; how much weight do I have to lose to get my wife to want me? It’s at that point that Rod Smith chimed in with a comment that I really needed to get Passionate Marriage. I had been following 2amsomewhere’s posts on the subject and was somewhat familiar with Schnarch and his writings from lurking alt.support.marriage. This name would come up on other relationship blogs on occasion also.

In November Rod and I did make efforts to contact each other by telephone. One time I woke him up after he was asleep! He was very nice about it, and told me to call back earlier the day the next day, which I did try but got an answering machine. He left voice messages on my phone as well as by email. I’m okay with all of this because just knowing he was there was sufficient. Plus I got the book and figured after reading it I might have more to talk about afterwards. The point being that I was too busy (and careless) to even make a phone therapy connection but as it turned out his advice was spot-on. He gave me a small shove in the right direction.

The last time I had a major discussion with Arwyn, it was almost like an assault or a guerrilla attack. It was short and a skirmish that left more questions than answers and certainly didn’t do anything to make me feel better about our marriage. It was bad timing all around.

This time, it was not planned at all. I went to the store after work and she and the boys had gone to church. We got home about the same time and she put the boys to be while I got ready for the next day. I was tired and was ready to go to bed. This is highly unusual as she normally goes to bed early and I stay up late, mostly after midnight. She was in already bed when I came in the bedroom. I sat for a minute contemplating whether to turn in or go back to the living room and turn on the computer. I laid down and attempted to snuggle up to her in the inverted position. To my surprise, all I found at the foot of the bed was her legs. Her hands reached down in the dark and moved over my legs and bum and wondered what i was doing. I switched positions, feeling a bit embarrassed but was able to snuggle without her moving off. And then we began to talk.

At first it was about her church, where the senior pastor is taking a leave of absence “to recharge” and another pastor there just left the ministry with no known explanation. More casualties of “church.” I shared with her my evolving views of church. She’s known that my views were under construction, as it were. She thought I was fancying starting my own church as part of a “house church” movement. I can’t say the thought hasn’t crossed my mind, but I’ve come to realize that conflict is just part of the growing process. Leaving and starting a church would be a futile attempt to escape and avoid that growth; there really is no escape anyway because conflict is inherent in me. And to carry this where I’m going, leaving my marriage for someone else wouldn’t solve my conflicts because the conflicts that I have with Arwyn are conflicts I have with me.

In that sense, it is about me and my own deficiencies. Confronting my own mess has been a major part of this process. Meanwhile, Arwyn has been working on step 4 in her 12-step program for the second time. This step closely mirrors the process that I was going through as I was learning to confront my own issues. We were going through identical steps at identical times. We did discuss this process. Arwyn went through all 12 steps last year, and I knew she was doing it. I waited for step 8 and step 9 to come around. It never did, at least for me. So when she told me she was doing the 12 steps again, I was skeptical that it was doing her any good at all as she was obviously in some deep, deep denial about what she was doing to me.

She admitted that she had “forgotten” to deal with me in those steps, and I corrected her and told her she had most likely simply chosen to avoid it altogether. She admitted to that and we went into a discussion about our avoidance issues and the fact that we were both first class avoiders. One of the major problems is that neither of us was interested in listening to what the other had to say and so we simply avoided the major issues. We agreed that this was likely something we both acquired from our respective backgrounds and that we would need to work in order to overcome that. Much of arwyn’s avoidance stems directly from issues I brought up in that long thread “XH and Me” where most people forgot all about the “me” part and wanted to talk about XH. Fact is, I have many of the same exact issues as I related there. My brain allows me to intellectually out-flank a whole lot of people and I have my own sense of moral rightness that makes others feel small, stupid and wrong. I can effectively use this to keep people from getting too close and intimidate them while beaming with pride when others tell me how great a Sunday school teacher I am or how great and smart I am in general. Smartness is a long way from wisdom, as evidenced by me stupidly asserting my moral and intellectual superiority over my wife.

Nothing says “I love you” like making a person feel small, stupid and wrong.

Keep in mind, this intellectual power was what fueled her initial attraction to me. She came to the young adult Sunday school class I was teaching and really liked my teaching skillz. She was hungry for knowledge and saw me as being a person who had a lot to offer her.

But later, she always felt judged and controlled by me, and gave up arguing with me a long time ago. To wit: I was always “right” and she was always “wrong.” My “rightness” pretty much put us on a collision course with disaster. God was using my marriage to wring that self-righteous pride out of me. I’ve still got plenty of it so there will be more wringing, I’m sure. But avoidance was about her only choice, as she saw it. She felt she was always walking on egg shells around me. Yeah, I see it, now. I really was judging her and found her wanting most of the time. The more she withdrew from me, the more I judged her as being inadequate which pretty much guaranteed that we would overheat and become disconnected. There was no such thing as a “discussion” because differing views automatically made us adversaries and if I become an adversary with anyone, I play to win. This is not a winning strategy for making friends and influencing people.

For her part, Arwyn had her own way of winning a fighting which was almost a form of emotional jujutso. To wit:

Jujutsu evolved among the samurai of feudal Japan as a method for dispatching an armed and armored opponent in situations where the use of weapons was impractical or forbidden.

My emotional fusion made me an easy target for this sort of thing. While I was using my intellect, she was using my own heart against me.

We talked about the whole business of marital sadism. I have a sadistic streak so wide, it’s pretty pointless denying it. Arwyn heartily agreed with that. But the real revelation to her was when I talked about my struggle in dealing with her sadistic side. And that opened the big can of worms that you have all been waiting for.

I told her that based on Passionate Marriage I had figured out that early part of our relationship that was so vexing to me. Namely that we were having sex all the time and then after we were married, sex had dwindled to pretty much nothing. The reason for that early sex wasn’t desire, but it was insecurity. Arwyn and I share very rich, deep wells of the fear of abandonment. Her sexual behavior was her attempt to avoid that whole abandonment scenario, and so it was all fueled by her insecurities. She would have sex even though many times she didn’t want to because insecurity reigned. However, she was also feeling guilt and shame over our premarital sexual behavior. By the time we actually got married, the shame and guilt had grown to a point where it overcame her insecurity about our relationship. Once the commitment of marriage was finalized, that insecurity disappeared but the guilt did not.

On top of this, we can add a generous dose of resentment. I was pretty much in total reptilian mode in the early years of our marriage. I really liked sex, and my self worth was totally tied to it. If we had enough sex, I felt loved. When I didn’t, I felt rejected and unloved. Arwyn’s self-worth was also tied to sex. But the more sex we had that she didn’t want, the more she felt used. She felt that in my view, sex was the answer to all our problems. She was pretty much right. She resented me for my controlling ways and then wanting sex on top of that. At the same time, her guilt increased because now I’m really making her feel like the bad wife.

And then we tried to fix each other. A classic example of this is the 3^rd year of our marriage, Arwyn bought Relationship Rescue. She went through about 4 chapters and then didn’t read anymore but did leave the book lying around thinking I really needed to read it. I did glance over it back then and thought it wasn’t too bad of a book for her. Two years later, I picked it up off a dusty shelf and then went through every single exercise. When I came to her at the appropriate time and attempted to follow Dr. Phil’s advice, she really wanted nothing to do with it. A few months later, I bought her the workbook for her birthday. That workbook has never been opened. To say she regretted buying that book is an understatement! She bought it with the idea of changing me, but when I did do it, she resisted it! Because it was another case of me controlling her, she wanted none of it.

A major part of this discussion involved our differing ways of getting to this point. Arwyn does better as part of a group-type structured process where I am able to get stuff from a book and learn independently. I went through Dr. Phil’s book alone. I was able to exercise and diet and lose weight without weekly meetings. I was able to discover and apply vital things from Passionate Marriage without a therapist or a support group — apart from my blogger friends, of course! I play with computers with very little in the way of classwork. I even play around a bit in Linux just getting things off the internet. But this is not at all typical, which is what makes me exceptional as a teacher. It’s what makes XH able to do much of what he does. But it also results in some problems relating to others who are not on the same page. I get exasperated at others for being too slow. Arwyn seemed to always be too slow and she didn’t appreciate me reminding her of it. Her going and finding her own group of friends in a different church through a 12 step group seems to be just what was needed for her to work on herself. And she has been doing it with the help of the group and her sponsor. It was helpful having my own background in 12 step groups because much of what Schnarch talks about translates fairly easily into 12-step-ese. I was able to share what I had learned from reading this book pretty much what I shared here. Writing has been another vital part of processing what I’ve learned and I’m getting better at harnessing that in order to internalize and retain it.

I shared with her my revelation about her own sadism in watching me suffer all of these years in virtual sexlessness, knowing perfectly well that I was suffering. She stood by and watched and participated in it while doing nothing or even rejecting my efforts to resolve it. I treaded carefully here, because I knew this was extremely sensitive territory we were in. Almost every previous discussion of sex has resulted in her and I both getting defensive and her totally melting down. But she did not meltdown at all. She took the hit and held it together. That was truly an amazing thing to witness.

Then we got to some nitty gritty. Basically, for pretty much our whole marriage, the sex has been awful. I did point out that she might have been ahead of me in that department for not wanting bad sex, while I was willing to ask for a double portion of it. She pretty much agreed with my assessment: it’s not that she did not like sex. She did not want it from me. It took me all this time to really figure it out to a point where I could deal with it and handle that without falling apart.

This is what emotional gridlock and critical mass does for a marriage. It makes emotional fusion such a totally untenable position that we are forced to move away from it and grow like a hermit crab that outgrows its shell and has to shed it to go find a new one. We were both ready to listen because the alternative was too much to take.

We discovered that we were on the same page in a lot of areas. We both wanted good sex and not bad sex. We each affirmed the right of the other to avoid bad sex and go for good sex. What entails “good sex” was not discussed, however. Just getting to this point was nothing short of monumental. I told her that I wanted to pursue that with her. I think the act of choosing her was an important one, at least for me. I’m not sure I’ve ever truly done that, before. Honestly, it comes to me that I’ve accepted her, settled for her, preferred her, cared for her, tried to win her, and done other things. But I don’t know if I’ve ever truly chosen her. She asked me out the first time we went out. Schnarch did write extensively about this, and I’m going to have to look it up again as it didn’t register first time through and i didn’t write about it because it didn’t hit me.

Moving on to better sex might be a daunting challenge, but I think she might be up for at least approaching the challenge of it. She seemed to be very open to it last night at least. No we did not have sex. By the time we concluded, it was already 1:30 a.m. and we both had to get up early and I was tired before we started the conversation. But we were snuggled together and touching and holding hands and it really was probably more intimacy than we had shared at any other time. Hence the proposed title “This is the most significant conversation we’ve ever had” which is a statement Arwyn made.

We concluded by deciding that we would avoid more positively. Namely that we were going to avoid avoiding these sorts of conversations in the future!

D.

Busting Loose

Breakthrough

Watershed

Finally!

A New Beginning

“This is the most significant conversation we’ve ever had.”

These are all working titles for the post that I’m working on, which details the conversation that Arwyn and I had last night.

In my last entry, I detailed how I thought we had entered a stage of critical mass. But the next few days, I began to wonder a bit. All the signs were there. We were not sniping. The oscillations had stopped. The criticism was barely even there. The entire marriage had quieted to a point where it seemed too quiet. I was wavering and buckling, because I could not see where we were headed. It looked like we were stuck and frozen in a place that seemed to be even beyond gridlock. But I continued to work on this just a bit, especially the “hugging until relaxed” exercise. Subsequent applications of this were more successful than my initial efforts. Eyes open kissing was something I also tried but as that got better, I would always get to a point where I would close my eyes because I wanted to better feel the growing connection. But we weren’t going anywhere.  Not backwards or forwards.  I could feel a tectonic shift taking place.  We were, indeed, at critical mass.

Last night, the gridlock finally busted loose.

 D.